The Church says we worship the same God.
And so we do. End of story. Why is this hard?
Lumen Gentium 10 is pretty clear about the issue:
In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
So along with Muslims, we worship the one and merciful God.
It's not difficult, people.
Of course, it is objected that the picture of God in the Quran and that of the Bible is radically different.
Okay. So?
See, when you ask if you're talking about the same being, having radically different ideas about who that person is does not negate that you're talking about the same person.
If you ask social conservative bloggers who I am, they will have radically different things to say about me than leftists.
That does not mean they're not talking about the same person.
In the Spencer article, the question is raised in order to underline the differences between Muslims and Catholics.
And that's legitimate.
But raising the question as "Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same God" leaves open to the suggestion that we don't worship the same God. And this idea is rampant among a certain strain of otherwise Orthodox Catholics.
Saying that we do not worship the same God because we have radically different ideas about God is false. It does not conform to Catholic doctrine.
Yes we do. We may not like the fact that we do, but when the Muslims talk about God and we talk about God, we're talking about the same person. It's just that very often, Muslims are wrong about God.
Dissent from Catholic teaching is dissent from Catholic teaching, whether it's on abortion, homosexuality or the identity of God.
If we are to correctly assess Islam in all its dimensions in order to combat its errors, we must know the truth about it.
Osumashi Kinyobe · 670 weeks ago
http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_swearing...
Islam, like Christianity, is derivative of Judaism, though the Muslims are loathe to admit it.
The biggest mistake Catholics make is that we have any connection or common ground with Muslims. Not so.
Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God and deny His death (and subsequent Resurrection):
http://www.quranbrowser.com/cgi/bin/get.cgi?%20ve...
Fatima was the name of one of Mohammad's wives. The similarity ends there.
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
That's not to say we have the same ideas about him.
Osumashi Kinyobe · 669 weeks ago
I don't even think that.
I still maintain that Catholics misunderstand whatever connection we may have with Islam.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
You can identify someone correctly without knowing someone. Muslims have correctly identified the same God as ours, they worship him, but they're wrong about him.
Osumashi Kinyobe · 669 weeks ago
balbulican · 669 weeks ago
balbulican · 669 weeks ago
More accurate, I think, to say "my team differs on some elements of their interpretation of God".
But otherwise, kudos for this acknowledgement of linkage.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
Sorry, but I do not buy it.
http://street-called-straight.blogspot.com/2012/0...
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
Just because they have wrong ideas about God does not mean we are NOT talking about the same person.
The God we are both talking about is the same God. We are talking about the God of Abraham, the God of Jesus and Mary.
We have both identified the correct God, they are grossly wrong about who he is or what he said.
Celine · 669 weeks ago
No Pope can change The Core Dogmas of our Catholic Faith. Our Creed. GOD IS TRINITY. - This Muslims vehemently deny. Muslims deny GOD IS FATHER. Muslims deny THE RESURRECTION OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
In 1Corinthians15:14 St. Paul teaches us: And if Christ be not risen again, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
JESUS WARNS US: Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves
And again in Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
NO. CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS DO NOT WORSHIP THE SAME GOD. CONTD…
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
No Pope can change The Core Dogmas of our Catholic Faith
But acknowledging that Muslims and Catholic identify the same God does not amount to changing the core dogmas. What the Church has said is that the Muslims have identified the One God, even though they are wrong about many things about him.
Arians denied the Trinity. Are we rash enough to suggest that they did not worship the same God as Catholics? Of COURSE they did! They were wrong about Jesus. Same thing with the subsequent string of heresies. They all worshipped the same God, just in error.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
Anon. · 669 weeks ago
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
"The Allah of the Koran is practically one with the Jehovah of the Old Testament."
Hardly Vatican II doctrine, there.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10499a.htm
A lot of weird things came out of V2, things that jar with respect to the previous millennia, and not just this issue.
That's what Doctrinal Development is all about.
Celine · 669 weeks ago
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
That is simply not a Catholic understanding of Catholic doctrine. Catholics acknowledge the existence of doctrinal development. The definition of the Trinity was not handed on to us on a silver platter in 33 AD. It had to be worked out in order to come to the truth about the relationship between the various persons of the Holy Spirit. Just like the dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption are not attested to in the first or second centuries. These dogmas were the product of doctrinal development. Doctrinal development is the process of deepening the understanding of the Truth of the Catholic Faith.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
If liberals in the RCC in their efforts to go along to get along have gone so far off the reservation to say that the abomination of Islam is the same God as we worship, then I am a dissenter. Sorry, but I will not check my brain at the door.
Mohammed was Joseph Smith on steroids.... with anger issues, and problems with women as well. Islam is a made-up religion, just like Mormonism, the difference is that LDS is not violent or misogynistic, and at least LDS uses the Bible i addition to their works of fiction.
The only think we agree on is the concept that there is One God, but we part ways even there since the Muslims will not accept the Triune nature of God. Some catholics take Mary way overboard, and that may be part of why there is this underlying sympathy for Islam, since they too reverence Mary. Once again, though, with a difference. They see Mary as mother of a secondary prophet (all prophets are beneath their false prophet Mohammed, in their view) but not as the Mother of God. Details, people.
The fact is, the only way to God is through His only begotten Son (something else Islam dos not accept-and vehemently so), so If Muslims want to find and know the true God they need to reject tehir whole system and false God wholesale, and turn to Jesus Christ, there is NO other way.
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
The only think we agree on is the concept that there is One God, but we part ways even there since the Muslims will not accept the Triune nature of God.
Don't be so reductionist. Muslims accept mant dogmas about God. They accept a few truths about Revelation, such as God creating the world, forming Adam, appearing to Abraham, etc. They *are* talking about the same God when they worship. They're just wrong about him on a large number of points.
o If Muslims want to find and know the true God they need to reject tehir whole system and false God wholesale, and turn to Jesus Christ, there is NO other way.
I agree. But they still worship the same God.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
What do you think the millions of Chistian converts in Muslim countries who must meet secretly or face death? Do you think that they see Allah and YHWH as the same being? They have seen Allah up close, and lived it, and know Allah for the fraudulent lie it is.
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
If they worship Jesus Christ, they worship the same God as we, no matter how screwed up the rest of their theology is. Even if they commit idolatry on a massive scale, their sin does not erase the fact that they acknowledge Jesus as Lord. And therefore the same God as we. You seem to have this idea that in order to worship the same God, we have to have the same theology. We don`t. We only have to identify the same divine being and acknowledge him as the Supreme Being. That`s it. That's all we have to do to worship the same God. The rest is details.
As far as Christian converts are concerned, how do you suppose Christian converts are made if they don't start out believing in the same God? The reason they are able to move out of Islam is because a priori they recognize God as God.
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
We have no truck nor trade with Jehovah' Witnesses either, since they too, deny the deity of Christ. They are worshipping something, just like the Mormons and Muslims, but it is not God, though they think it is.
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
SUZANNE 116p · 669 weeks ago
CCHeritage · 669 weeks ago
Suzanne, just to take anyones word (including the Catholic Church that previously stated otherwise) on something like this, that has historical facts that state the opposite, is just not smart, logically or spiritually. I would say that you wrote this ignorant of the facts. Allah was a god they picked out of the many gods they worshiped. Mohammad was illiterate and couldn't read or write. He himself thought he was possessed by a demon spirit (which he clearly was) but a so called "Christian" friend of his wife (if I remember correctly) ended up convincing him it was God etc when it clearly wasn't. That is a the tip of the iceberg but you owe it to yourself to know all the facts. Someone deleted Rod Parsley's awesome sermon/s about that off of YouTube, which laid out all the facts wonderfully.
So here is another that asks some very important questions of whether Islam and Christianity are sister faiths (4 parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsojLxExBA&fe...
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
Lady Janus · 669 weeks ago
Suzanne's original and main point is correct: Christians and Muslims worship the SAME god...which, incidentally, happens to be the god of the Jews, as well. That is the basic truth of the matter. Everything else is personal detail.
deleted582838 99p · 669 weeks ago
Don't you dare complain! Here, have some popcorn instead.
But amusement aside, it's good to know that for all their loudly professed fealty to Christian dogma, their hatred of Islam trumps all.
Osumashi Kinyobe · 669 weeks ago
At this point, you'll come up with some sort nonsensical would-be logical equation that amounts to your not being able to stand up for the civilisation that gave you succour and protection.
deleted582838 99p · 669 weeks ago
If you take a second to glance at my post (the one right above yours), which is also my only post in this comment thread, what you will fail to find is any mention of, reference or allusion or any other connection to either Christian extremism or creationism.
I always thought you had a tendency to fly of on a tangent, I only now realize that that is because you do not actually read a word I write but just post something random upon seeing my name. I thought we where trying to have a discussion, I now notice that I was mistaken. Sorry to have wasted your time.
(no idea how that came up
Boy, can I relate to that!
Lady Janus · 669 weeks ago
Oh, I wasn't complaining...it's really, really hard to hear my laughing my head off about it when all you've got to go by is print...hehehehehehehehe!
But popcorn gets stuck in my teeth. Got maybe some s'mores? I promise I'll brush extra carefully after... ;D
@nealfordchp · 669 weeks ago
Lady Janus · 669 weeks ago