I'm very interested in continuing the discussion --as this is exactly the kind of discussion that I appreciate. It makes me nostalgic for my days as a religious message board operator.
I think it's a shame that others should be left out of the discussion-- naturally they've probably moved on.
But I would like to quote Harebell's latest message and get your reaction on it. You might wish to read the whole thread.
Put power in the hands of anyone or any group and that is what controls. Anybody who denies the power that religious leaders in the world wield is deluded. Religions are created to control people and their thoughts and have been used to great effect in the west as well as elsewhere. It is this powerful side of religion that allowed kids to suffer and continue to suffer at the hands of criminals in dog collars.
Religion is a man made institution. You cannot separate it from the actions of its leaders and adherents. God on the other hand is a completely different matter, but mankind and religion are linked at the conception of any faith based doctrine.
Nice twist in the words at the end there. Religious folk are always free to act on their convictions, but must expect to be called to justify them. However they are not free to align government policy with one specific form of religion. That was the founders'
Here is what I have to say:
Put power in the hands of anyone or any group and that is what controls.
If someone puts power in the hands of someone, it suggests that they have power that they are giving.
So to me, that suggests that is the believer who ultimately has the power, not the religious leader. (This is all in the context of a free society).
Anybody who denies the power that religious leaders in the world wield is deluded.
I just find it funny that you, a secular individual claims to know better than I, an actual religious believer, who has power and who doesn't.
If I don't want the pope to have power over my life, then I don't.
But I buy into Catholic Doctrine, I willingly submit to the authority of the Church.
Any adult who is a faithful Catholic isn't faithful by force. You believe it or you don't. Nobody "makes you" be Catholic.
Religions are created to control people
I'd like some evidence to back that up. I'd like some historical evidence of a conspiracy to control people.
You can't control people who do not want to be controlled.
It is this powerful side of religion that allowed kids to suffer and continue to suffer at the hands of criminals in dog collars.
Again, I'd like some evidence of it. There's nothing in Catholic Doctrine that says "if a pedophile priest is caught, cover it up, regardless of consequences to the children."
Religion is a man made institution. You cannot separate it from the actions of its leaders and adherents.
So if one leader screws up, we all screw up?
If all Catholics sin, then the religion is sinful?
No, it doesn't quite work that way.
However they are not free to align government policy with one specific form of religion. That was the founders' intention.
Actually, no. The Founders' intention was that people act politically on their religious convictions.
You can't manipulate a person's conscience. If a person's conscience is formed about religion, then they must follow their conscience, in all areas, including in politics. If a person cannot follow their conscience in politics, they have no freedom of religion.
